This International Women’s Day, AdTech | AlikeAudience proudly presents an exclusive episode on Women’s Leadership.
In this episode, the dynamic business leaders Anna Chan and Elice Lau take you through their transformative journey of how they started out as minorities in the male-dominated AdTech industry to how times have now changed with the increased participation of women.
Tune in and listen to the duo as they share:
- The secrets behind their successful careers
- Self-care practices for having a balanced life
- Their experiences in life coaching, meditation, and mindful living
Meet your host
Jessica Lam: Welcome to episode four of AlikeAudience’s AdTech podcast, where we discuss the latest AdTech trends and industry insights in a series of interviews with industry leaders. I’m Jessica, Director of the brand Creatives, a boutique agency for tech companies, and I’m hosting the podcast today.
It’s a Women’s Day special episode!
Jessica Lam: Today’s topic is one of my favourites, women’s leadership. This is especially relevant in the male-dominated AdTech industry, which really suffers from a lack of diversity, and we’ve International Women’s Day coming up. So I think it’s an excellent time to hear from high-powered women in this industry.
Guests for the episode: Anna Chan and Elice Lau
Jessica Lam: We’ve invited Anna Chan, the CEO of the Media Line of Business at Dentsu International, Hong Kong who’s also an accomplished life coach. We also have Elice Lau with us. She’s the Chief Strategy Officer of AlikeAudience, and she has a decade of experience in MarTech and is the founder of several successful startups. So let’s start from the beginning. You’re both very high-calibre women in high-powered digital media industries. How did you two get to where you are?
Anna Chan’s first dip into media and advertising
Anna Chan: Well, I came from quite a culturally diverse background. I was born in Shanghai; my grandfather was from Taiwan. My mom is Indonesian Chinese. So I was not coming from a media agency but started my digital advertising career with Yahoo!
My moment came when I met my future boss, who was working in the same building, and a business partner at that time. Humorously, he approached me and asked if I had a twin sister who might be interested in taking a regional role in IPG media brands as Head of Search for APAC. I said I don’t have a twin sister, but I might be interested. Since then, I’ve been very much indulged in the media and advertising field.
Her experience as a life coach
Anna Chan: Alongside my main career, I have taken an 18-month break in between to learn something that I like, such as personal trainer and coaching. Being a life coach has changed my life. I always tell my coachees that I’m the one who benefits most from the coaching sessions.
A heartwarming coaching experience
Anna Chan: One of my favourite coaching memories was when I had a coaching session with a working mom. She was very emotional during the session but she insisted to carry on. When the session was over, I asked her why she felt so emotional.
She said, “Actually, I started crying because of you. Because I could feel the empathy that you have for me. You made me realize that I do have the strength and ability to do what I want to do.”
Accomplishments and accolades
Anna Chan: With the coaching work I do, I was selected as one of the winners for the influencer awards in 2020 by Hong Kong Living, and up till today, I still do coaching for NGO and university students.
Jessica Lam: Wow, that’s really touching. And what about you, Elice?
The beginning of Elice Lau’s entrepreneurship journey
Elice Lau: Hi, everybody. I’m a serial entrepreneur and had my first startup running back a decade ago, 2012. And before that, I absorbed knowledge of running businesses through my career as a management trainee in a listed company, to an international firm with 5000 staff globally, and at a 20-person startup firm from over five ethnicities.
Main accomplishments
Elice Lau: Some of my key accomplishments in my career include taking companies global, strategic business growth from China and now to the US and APAC, and team expansion. One of the metrics that I’m most happy about during this decade is a 100% staff retention rate within their first 12 months of employment and throughout.
The practice of meditation and mindfulness
Elice Lau: I also had the luck and luxury to take 24 months of the sabbatical year off during the past decade. I spent mainly my time in a forest in Myanmar and focused on mindfulness, or meditation practice, for a few 1000 hours, where I gained insights into life and the meaning and purposes for life.
Some fun facts about me: I’m a vegetarian and an image consultant. I’m also a face yoga teacher, and I’m very active on a volleyball court.
Challenges within a male-dominated industry
Jessica Lam: Wow, that’s interesting, a few 1000 hours. So obviously, both of you have had very long and successful careers. And what are some of the challenges you would say you face, especially in an industry that is very male-dominated?
Standing out among the crowd
Anna Chan: Work-wise, I personally don’t find it challenging as a woman, day-to-day. I considered my ability quite equally measure up [to others in the field]. And I have my advantages being trilingual and all-embracing due to my cultural background.
Maybe the most obvious times when you realize, oh, I’m actually the only woman in the room were those industry tech events, especially in the old days. However, it’s quite delightful to witness a transformation since 2012-13, where I have had women panellists chatting all along with me.
Jessica Lam: I love that anna. And what about you, Elice, do you find that similar to your experience?
Elice Lau: When I first had my own chair as a chairman, I was very young, actually, in my 20s. So it was very uncommon for me to attend an event where I was one of the very handful of women out of 100 participants.
Imposter Syndrome–a hindrance for women?
Elice Lau: Fast forward 10 years now, I noticed there is a very commonly described syndrome, especially in this day, called imposter syndrome. It’s a psychological pattern that causes people to doubt their success. It’s also an internal experience of believing that one is not as competent as others perceive.
And this syndrome has proven to be more prone to happen in women than men. This mentality could also be a hindrance for me as a woman and also for other women executives to play well in our role.
The kindness of mentors
Elice Lau: I have been fortunate enough to have many, many mentors in my career, who advise me, from time to time, especially when I face a situation that they have faced and failed, and they wish me to succeed. I’m thankful to all of them, who aren’t embarrassed to share their vulnerable parts of how they failed very candidly, and advise me wholeheartedly on how I can best avoid the same failure.
I figure through all over a decade now, this is a very, very beautiful relationship. I still talk to them during Covid. They still share what’s going on with them in the rest of the world. And I do wish I can contribute the same to the next generations, if possible, to other growing leaders the same way.
Jessica Lam: Well, that’s really beautiful. And I love both your different perspectives about working in the AdTech industry and the media industry. So, what are some highlights throughout your career? Or are there any stories you’d like to share?
Gender is not a barrier to opportunities
Anna Chan: Sure. So after taking the job in IPG media brands, I went on a trip with my boss. He revealed the reason why I was chosen was because I am a woman, and I am Asian who brings credibility to the position which oversees the Asia Pacific region. There were a few women back then who were perceived to be more perceptive and people-oriented and had the more technical search and digital skill sets back in 2006. This is where I realized that being a woman is in no way a barrier to opportunities. But rather perceive me for what I do or have done and I am not defined by my gender.
Jessica Lam: Yeah, I absolutely agree with that, Anna. And what about you, Elice? I know that you led many successful startups; I’m sure it was quite an incredible experience.
The impact of being around male leaders
Elice Lau: Well, I always joked with my friends that the stories that have been happening in startups are very, very abundant enough for me to write a book. And let me just share one of the recent ones.
Back when I first started my career as a leader, I had always been the minority in the company, meaning yeah, I was one of the women, but maybe the only one. And that’s when I got heavily influenced by how a male leader is like, and over time, some leadership elements of me were actually like a man, I figured, except that I’m wearing maybe a dress. And my partners joked about how I speak like a man at times and make decisions like a man as well.
Well-being in the workplace
Elice Lau: I have to say the beginning of this year is a beautiful beginning for my company and me. In January, I had the opportunity to show the “Yin” side of me. During our kickoff meeting, I was invited to lead my team for an one-hour meditation workshop. That was actually for me 60 minutes when I was utterly comfortable in my own skin, from outside in and inside out.
I guided each section with the only good intention: radiating kindness to everyone. I could also observe how each colleague’s well-being was. And I was able to give them advice on their well-being–kind of like a pocket user guide that they can use from time to time to take care of their inner-self whenever they need it.
Insights to a successful career
Jessica Lam: Yeah, I really enjoy hearing both of your perspectives. So it seems like Anna, you’re very confident in the skills that women have, then Elice, you have a slightly more aggressive approach, but then also be able to balance that with mindfulness practice. So what about getting to where you are? So both of you obviously lead a lot of people in the industry and in your company. So what are some insights you have on a successful career?
Passion, hard work, and perseverance
Anna Chan: My thought is, always be passionate, work hard, and have a clear fall. Passion will keep you going. You just need to trust the process. If you have a clear goal and work hard [towards it], you will regret nothing.
Do not be disheartened if you do not see success at first. My motto in life is 天時地利人和. You need the right timing, right place, and social connections for something to happen.
Jessica Lam: I love that Chinese saying, and yes, conditions are really important. What about you, Elice?
Challenges specific to women
Elice Lau: First of all, especially when we are so locked down now and being at home very often, staying in touch with the world would be one of the insights.
I’ve read some articles from the New York Times lately, where there is research about women actually who take a year away from work can have 39% lower earnings than their counterparts who don’t.
So even if we are on a life-changing stage, even if we’re facing difficult and challenging times, just keep reminding ourselves that there are actually other parts of our lives, which were of our brilliant contribution.
Wisdom for everyday life
Elice Lau: Second, I would say: be firm, but not blunt. This is an answer my meditation master gave when he was asked, “What’s the [best] way to give feedback to anyone who you don’t agree with, especially when we notice there are some emotions.”
And the answer, “Be firm, but not blunt,” is a wisdom that helps me a lot, not only in work but in many other situations, like when you get the wrong food order or when your taxi driver is angry, any situation. Just pause for a second. Take a deep breath and share your feedback firmly. Try this with anyone, even with your colleagues and your family. It really works, and it’s really majestic as well, believe me.
Insights into women’s leadership
Jessica Lam: Thank you for sharing that. So, because of International Women’s Day coming up, I would like to circle back to that. Even though we’ve achieved a lot of success, there are a lot of women who are still held back. As you said, if women take time off, they make less money. So what are your thoughts on having women in more leadership roles and having more authority in the media industry?
The need for diverse leadership
Anna Chan: I would like to rephrase the question. It’s not simply having more women in leadership roles but a more diverse leadership team to service the industry.
So women shouldn’t be just stereotyped to make certain contributions, but more so socially, representing a voice among our growing diversified and socially upright communities, especially in the MarTech and AdTech industry, where we claim ourselves to be always ahead of the trends and be ready to innovate and change.
Dentsu: leading the path towards change
Anna Chan: At Dentsu, my current company understood the need to impose such changes. We [now] have two female CEOs, one being myself, to spearhead a company with over 60% female employees. We push forward various social campaigns such as helping Rainlily, which is a local nonprofit organization to rally mass support in combating women’s sexual violence, a pressing social problem unspoken and unseen publicly.
All in all, we are not simply bluffing about how feministic we are, but really trying to prove a point that we are now so socially and culturally conscious to providing equal chances to everyone, and that we prioritize attitude, skills, abilities as our number one benchmark, when it comes to talents.
Jessica Lam: I really love how you frame it, like instead of having more women in leadership roles, having more diverse leadership on the team. And I think that’s an amazing achievement having 60% female employees and two female CEOs. So what about you, Elice? What are your thoughts on this topic?
Diversity offers new perspectives and balance
Elice Lau: Well, as a Chinese and a believer of mindfulness practice, where the middle way is the essence of the philosophy. So any place with a balance of Yin and Yang is always in the best harmony, right? And to echo what Anna just mentioned, I think it’s not only applicable to our industry to have more women, but [having] more diversity in teams is the key.
So when I joined AlikeAudience years back, I was basically the only female other than my secretary. As of today, after a few years, we have a good balance of splits among our team, with about 47% of us being female and with a team mix of over five ethnic origins.
Being a startup, we always have to test, learn and fail really fast. And a team with diversity, I think, always offers us new perspectives and enables us to fill our blind spots. More importantly, we are trained to have more endurance and embrace unforeseeable conditions as we interact with a team from different cultural backgrounds day to day.
I think it’s a very good harmony for us to keep our diversity and also a mix of Yin and Yang in our team, and I hope this could be seen in more and more AdTech and market companies in the future.
Jessica Lam: That’s a really good perspective. So in light of International Women’s Day, what advice would you have for other women?
The importance of self love
Anna Chan: March 8 is International Women’s Day. As a working woman who is always learning in this ever-changing era, my advice to women out there is simple.
Love yourself first before loving others.
If you can love yourself, you can empower yourself to overcome anything and embrace whatever challenges and opportunities the world provides. Let me wrap up with one of my favourite quotes from Audrey Hepburn. What she said back then was, “Nothing is impossible. The word itself says, ‘Yes, I’m possible.’”
Jessica Lam: Amazing. So what about you, Elice? What advice would you have for other women while in their careers?
Acceptance, courage, and connection
Elice Lau: Thanks Anna, for that beautiful sharing. I like that quote very much as well. I’ll use the acronym ABC.
A stands for Accepting who you are. We’re all Awesome our way. As Anna said, we should always love ourselves first before we can radiate our love to others. Why don’t we just talk to ourselves every day that I’m wonderful in the mirror every day, just accept whatever we are, whoever we are.
B stands for being Bold. Ask ourselves: am I going to regret tomorrow if I’m not going to do something or make that decision. Just make a decision that we will never regret because we only live our life once.
C stands for Connecting the dots and treasuring the dots we have. I used to think that I couldn’t connect the dots I had. But every dot we pin today will become very valuable anytime and soon. I’m sure many, many brilliant women out there today will share many more beautiful stories along with us on International Women’s Day. I wish all of us a wonderful day and continue to shine and glow our way.
How to practice self-care
Jessica Lam: Thank you, Elice. And I just have a bonus question here because [we’ve talked] so much about self-love, self-acceptance, and mindfulness. I really would like to know as well, in such a hectic world where women balance so many responsibilities, what are some ways we can practice self-care?
Self-imposed pressures of unrealistic expectations
Anna Chan: For me, I learned a lot from coaching. During the coaching sessions, I realized that many of the coachees out there, may it be men or women, they [have to] pick themselves up all the time, [because they have] very, very high expectations, to a point where they feel not being accomplished or not being able to accomplish anything.
The power of self-love, meditation, and exercise
Anna Chan: So I think, again, I mentioned earlier, you need to really love yourself before you can really try to love others. Another thing Elice mentioned, in which I also have a similar practice, is meditation. I meditate every day in the morning before I actually go to work. I think that really helps me to have clarity in mind, and also be able to focus during the day.
I think that also boosts my memory, especially in this evolving world. So I think definitely, meditation coupled with what I said, love yourself. Plus, I also exercise in the morning. So I think these are like three combos that worked really well for me.
Jessica Lam: Amazing. So you would say meditation, exercise, and love yourself. And Elice, do you find that the same works, or do we have another set of practices that you’d like to add?
Take some time for yourself to recharge
Elice Lau: Well, to me, I would say, if it’s a practice that we do every day, then something has to be very sustainable. I would say just having some “me-time”. Just to remind ourselves to have some me time. And that “me-time” could be as short as five minutes.
I tried to build up this behavior. I allow myself to do anything I like during that five minutes. It could be just reading a very short article for five minutes. It could also be doing face yoga and looking at the mirror, and telling myself I look brilliant today for five minutes. It can be just a short walk around; it can be just a call to your family and friends in a Whatsapp call. We can play switch. You know I have a friend connecting the switch from Hong Kong to Tokyo and playing with their friends every day for a while.
So just anything that intuition brings you to for five minutes, and allow yourself to recharge whenever you need. And the key is that while we do it every day, we will realize that this habit will form, and that the recharge is good enough for us to be able to perform for the rest of the day and be able to focus. Yeah, so “me-time”. That’s very important to me. And I hope this is useful to other women as well.
Subscribe and stay tuned!
Jessica Lam: Yes, it’s almost like hitting a reset button so that we can recharge our batteries. Thank you so much, Anna and Elice, for these very inspiring insights. We’ll conclude here, and thank you for listening in.
For more podcast episodes from AlikeAudience, subscribe here. And don’t forget to leave us a review and tag us on social. Transcripts will be on our website’s podcast page. And for more information about AlikeAudience, you can visit us at www.alikeaudience.com. Thank you!
